The Awkward Off Vs. Lymbyc Systym

EMO’S in AUSTIN, TX was a post-rock wonderland last Friday as Loxsly, Sleep Whale, Lymbyc Systym, and This Will Destroy You took the stage on a soggy evening. The duo of LYMBYC SYSTYM were kind enough to sit down with me before the show for an interview.

We discussed everything from sock puppets to putting their sound into a concise musical package. They shared the process of creating their latest album Shutter Release with help from Jeff Zeigler and John Congleton. Even though it was a sopping-wet Friday in Austin, TX, Lymbyc Systym filled Emo’s outside with their lush and often-surprising post-rock instrumentation.

Full Transcript (Audio):

Nichole Bennett: I’m Nichole, and I’m at Emo’s with the dudes of Lymbyc Systym. Do you guys want to introduce yourselves and say what you do?

Mike Bell: I’m Mike. I play the drums, glockenspiel, all of the electronic stuff for the most part…electronic percussion, some textural stuff.

Jared Bell: I’m Jared. I do keyboards live and a bunch of other stuff.

NB: So these guys are brothers, and they’ve been in various incarnations of a band for a while, starting with a kiddie rap group and progressing to what is now Lymbyc Systym. If you had to tell the story of Lymbyc Systym with a puppet show, would it be with sock puppets or marionette puppets.

MB: Oh sock puppets straight up, I think.

JB: Sure, yeah. Marionette puppets are a little classier, maybe.

MB: We played at this venue in Houston, Super Happy Fun Land, and the woman that works there makes sock puppets.

JB: Sock monkeys.

MB: Ever since then, I’ve been totally into sock puppets and sock monkeys and all that stuff.

NB: Do you guys prefer studio or stage? They are totally different animals for you guys.

MB: I don’t know which one I necessarily prefer. They are totally different animals. There’s an amazing microscopic sterility to the studio, if that makes sense. It’s like everything is under the microscope and you are analyzing all of the details, whereas live none of that matters anymore and it’s all about the raw energy. In a body sense, I prefer live, but in a mental sense I prefer the intensity of the studio, overanalyzing all of your stuff and being super-critical of everything whereas live you forget about all of that and you sort of just go at it and it’s more about creating an energy onstage.

NB: Is there any element of improvisation on stage?

MB: We used to do more of that in the past. These days it’s mostly just really subtle stuff. All of our stuff are through composed, so it’s the same length every time. So, we’re not improvising with the structures. When you’re on tour you definitely find your little spots where you can mess with things and reinterpret yourself or be influenced by other external factors. So there’s a tiny touch of improvisation but not in the greater sense.

NB: When you hear an album like this, you wonder how it’s going to translate to stage. Like “Oh no are they going to jam me to death?,” but when I saw you guys it seemed very clean.

MB: We try to keep things concise and only keep them as along as necessary. This is something that we’ve been dissed for in reviews sometimes is making things shorter than they seem they should be. It’s an instant impact. There’s something amazing about listening to a 12 minute song that progresses, but there’s also something awesome about a song that covers all of its bases in like 3 minutes.

NB: You guys have a new album from last year. Do you want to tell me about it? How’s it different?

JB: I think the main difference between this and our previous records is that it is a long time in the making. It took about 3 years from the very beginning to when it was released. It’s also a lot more production-heavy than anything we have done before.

MB: Yeah. More intense orchestration with different instruments.

JB: Our last full length record Love Your Abuser was just recorded at home. We lived together in Arizona at the time, and we just did it all at home. We would just wake up in the morning and record, and we kind of wrote it as we went. For the new material we made full demos for everything. Everything was very set. Then we went into the studio and recorded everything to tape, and obviously there’s a lot more orchestration.

MB: I like the idea too of bands that I’m fond of in the sonic evolution of their records. In the context of Lymbyc Systym for Love Your Abuser sounds very homemade but in a charming sort of way, like it was constructed maybe in a bedroom or in a room of a home and done by people who didn’t necessarily know what they were doing as far as recording their instruments properly. I think it’s cool for the listener to then hear our new record or the split we did with This Will Destroy You. Actually our stuff on that comes from the same recording sessions as Shutter Release. Hopefully it’s a sonic evolution in the sense that there’s more clarity and you can hear more of what’s going on, more intense orchestration.

NB: Yeah, it’s almost more focused. We talked a little bit about press earlier. Do you guys read reviews about yourselves?

JB: Yeah.

MB: Sometimes.

JB: Any band that says they don’t, they really do. I don’t think it gets to us ever. Fortunately everything for this latest record has been really really positive, like overwhelmingly positive. I think it’s actually a good part of the process to read reviews. It’s really easy to say that this is my art, and it doesn’t matter what other people think. It’s important to start from that approach, but you can make music for just yourself and keep it in your house, but once you put it out there it’s not just you, it’s a part of everyone. The way people hear it is really important to us. For any art, not just music, it should be important what people’s reactions are. Sometimes it’s good. Like Mike was saying is something that is really jarring to them that we’re actually really proud of is Lymbyc Systym has really abrupt changes or things are shorter than you want. Like in a parochial piece of art, something that gets you to think may be initially disturbing. We enjoy checking out what other people have to say.

NB: Yes, with the internet, you can get a review almost immediately.

JB: You can see also when someone posts a review how someone just guts half that review and makes it their own review.

NB: You guys are known for doing lots of touring. Is there a method behind that madness or is that just something that kind of happened?
MB: We used to tour just for the sake of touring, like self-promotion. There were times when Jared or I didn’t have jobs. We would tour to make the bare amount of money necessary to live. Over time, we’ve realized it’s more about productive touring, planning things more, making use of good opportunities, and consolidating the tour. We’ve kind of backed off from the constant touring we did 2005 to the middle of 2008 or so. Now I would say it’s more about doing logical, well-planned tours that are more concise and well-promoted.

JB: When we started, we were really inspired by bands that had a DIY ethic. Now things are more centered around blogs and the Internet making bands. There was a point, or at least I’d like to think, that it was just about bands that are touring. Everytime you come back through a city there are more people and maybe a record label finds you. The reason that we started touring so much is that we were really inspired by that go-for-it approach.

NB: I think there’s still an element of that. Here, I see it a lot. If you could trade your tour van or tour bus in for a dinosaur, what would it be?

MB: Well, for the same use, I’d get a brontosaurus because we could ride it. Ten tour buses worth of people could ride on the back of a brontosaurus.

JB: Velociraptors are really fast, and I really hate long drives. It would be kind of nice to get through a drive fast.

MB: If you could get a little team of velociraptors you could go way faster than you could go on I-10.

JB: Although a pterodactyl could just fly you around.

MB: That’s true. I’d take a pterodactyl over an airplane anyday.

NB: Tell me a little bit about the songwriting process.

MB: For this record, living in two different places, it was all about us starting our respective ideas where we were and then swapping ideas online.

JB: It should be noted that when we were making the record, Mike was living in Austin, and I was living in Brooklyn.

MB: There were definitely moments in the process when we did have to come together. Like Jared said, we did fully-fledged out demos for all of the stuff, but then we got together to have someone who really actually knew what they were doing record us well who was our friend Jeff Zeigler from Uniform Recording in Philadelphia. So that was a situation where Jared and I got together. We spent a week at Jeff’s house.

NB: And he’s go the studio in his house.

MB: Yeah in his basement. It’s a fully-fledge studio with great equipment, and Jeff’s a masterful engineer. So we got together then, and then there was the process of us being in different places editing what we recorded and then adding stuff that didn’t necessarily have to be recorded by someone who knew how to record, like electronic programming or textural stuff that we did with synthesizers where we just plugged them directly into the computer—maybe through guitar pedals and into the computer. That’s simplistic. It only gets difficult when you are trying to record a whole drum kit. Jeff also has a lot of really great gear, like vintage microphones. That was stuff that we didn’t even have access to. We were in a separate places, and then we met up again to actually mix the record with this guy John Congleton who is actually up in Dallas. That was the final part where we were all together making sure everything was how we wanted it, and John did an amazing job, impeccable job, mixing it. And then it was done.

JB: I think another interesting thing that you were almost getting at was this time around that most of the gear we used, I’d say 70% of the gear, was Jeff’s stuff. He’s got a lot of vintage stuff.

MB: Yeah, I played a vintage drum set.

JB: It was an easy way to get a different flavor on this album from our previous album. We were using a different keyboard, different drum set, different percussion things.

NB: I’m going to go back and listen for that. That’s exciting. If you guys could have a superpower, what would it be?

MB: Never ever getting tired.

NB: I want that one.

MB: To be able to do this tour scheduling where you have to drive for like 14 hours. This is a very real-life example maybe from yesterday. Driving from 13-14 hours, sleeping for 4 hours, and then getting up and doing the whole grind again. Of course there’s an element of exhaustion just from the work involved, but I think it would be awesome to just never get tired without the use of any caffeine or anything, blaze through everything totally on top of your game and alert. I don’t know. Jared, what would yours be?

JB: I don’t know. Mine would be more humanitarian just because the world’s so disgusting right now.

MB: To be able to heal with a touch would be an amazing superpower.

JB: That’s my cliché answer.

NB: What would your advice me to a band that’s starting out?

JB: My basic advice would be to just play music because you love it.

MB: If you’re really invested to the project in the long term, do your best to learn how to deal with the other personalities and how to work together. I would say that so many times bands come to an end not because the music has gotten stale but because personalities conflict, and they can’t stand to be around them. Granted, being in a band involves being close to these people all the time whether you are in a studio or a tour van. If you can say that regardless of stress or anxiety that these are people that I’m really committed to working with, then that’s a great place to start from.

JB: And also in a more jaded way, just meet a lot of people. Meet the right people. Tour and make music, but unfortunately you also have to schmooze it up.

NB: And we’ll end on if you could be any animal, what would you be?

JB: I have several animals. People say I look like a bird, so I kind of feel connected to being a bird, but if I weren’t a bird definitely a monkey. Dexterity is important.

MB: I would be a well-groomed dog in a luxury home and well cared for and my only life responsibilities were to eat food and be loved by people. Not having any responsibilities—that’d be cool.

JB: That would get stale. Maybe if you were a dog living in the countryside and you could go roam all day.

MB: You’re right. It would be better to be a dog on an awesome farm than in a luxury home.

NB: That’s the most specific answer I’ve gotten. Thank you guys so much.

The Awkward Off Vs. Capybara

Before their show with RANGE LIFE ENTERTAINMENT at DOBIE THEATER in AUSTIN, TX, I met with CAPYBARA.

They claim to be influenced by little more than their upbringing and their mustaches. Their shows are accompanied by a giant cut-out of Shaquielle O’Neal’s head. These childhood friends are just as fun and jangly in person as their music. How can you go wrong with mustache talk and dinosaur facts?

Full Transcript (Audio):

Nichole Bennett: Here we are around the table. I am Nichole, and I am with a band that is named Capybara. Do you guys want to introduce yourselves?

Darin Seal: I’m Darin

Jared Horne: I’m Jared.

Mark Harrison: I’m Mark.

Joel Wrolstad: And I’m Joel.

MH: And together we’re…

Capybara: Capybara!

JH: Yeah…

DS: Jared didn’t participate in that.

JH: We hope that we’re close enough to the microphone.

NB: I think it’s fine. So you guys have been on the road a lot. You’ve been drinking a lot at coffeshops. You’ve been doing all sorts of things. If you could pick a superpower to help you out with this journey—or just in your normal life—what would you pick?

DS: I would grow a really nice mattress on my back. It would just be on me all the time.

NB: That’s a very practical superpower.

JH: I would be a good woodworker. Like, a decent wordworker—not a good one.

NB: Do you just want to continually make furniture?

JH: I want to make decent furniture. That’s it. I’m not greedy.

MH: I would have very good gliding powers. I would find high places and glide around for ages.

JW: I would like to not have to sleep and not be tired. That would be awesome—to seriously answer your question.

NB: The band Capybara just met a real-life Capybara named Caplin Rous. And “Rous” is R-O-U-S I believe.

DS: It stands for Rodent of Unusual Size.

NB: Which is a Princess Bride reference.

DS: And she pronounces it “rose.” We love that thing. I legitimately miss it.

JH: Yeah it’s really sweet.

MH: It’s straw-like fur.

JH: Just very cuddly and soft.

JW: The best part is when it’s very happy when she scratches it right all of its hair stands up like a puffer fish or a porcupine. It’s amazing.

JH: It makes little chirping sounds.

MH: Oh my gosh, the sounds that it makes are way better than the sounds that we make.

NB: Maybe we should do some Caplin field recordings.

DS: And I would rather listen to that than our album.

MH: To summarize our experience with the most famous capybara, we did look on eBay and various other sources on how to acquire a capybara. Here in Texas there is a breeder that will sell them for $600, but don’t let that word get out because we want it.

DS: We want all of them.

JH: We want the next batch.

NB: Alright, nice segue way into the album itself. You guys have a new album out. What is up with that?

MH: Well, the name of the album is called Try Brother, and we recorded it in Taos, New Mexico. We all decided to quit our jobs at the very end of last year, and we moved down to Taos, New Mexico to find some solitude away from our lives that we were living, which included many raucous nights of  gambling and many drug-filled nights.

DS: Yes, those are lies.

JH: Big lies.

DS: That is funny because we are the lamest band in existence.

MH: It was really a question of life or death. We had to stop doing what we were doing and have a life change, and music was the thing that picked us up off of our feet.

DS: In the end, I think we really learned from…

MH: …each other. No, but Try Brother came out of three months of recording and figuring out how to work together. We’ve all worked together before in various musical groups, but this was the first time all of us together as a group. We all went to high school together. It was a fun little escapade.

DS: But we were all in different cliques. Joel was a jock. Jared was a nerd. Mark was a student council prep. And I was the bad boy.

JH: Except we were all just losers. Except for Mark—Mark was a really popular guy.

DS: Mark was our high school mascot, the blue jay.

[thunk]

NB: I think that just was a blue jay.

DS: A bird just hit the window.

JH: Which serves it right for flying around at night. It may have been a bat.

NB: Crunchy or smooth peanut butter?

JH: Smooth!

DS: Crunchy.

JH: Smooth!

MH: Crunchy.

JH: Smooth! The more you say it, the more it counts. Smooth!

NB: If you had to describe Capybara’s sound as an amusement park ride, what would you choose?

DS: I wouldn’t.

NB: You’re going to turn down that opportunity?

DS: No, I’m not.

JH: That was a nice setup.

MH: When people say “If you had to…”, we always give them a hard time. But, since we have to say something. An amusement park ride? Maybe like a lazy river.

JH: Or maybe like those cars that are on the rails that you can still turn the steering wheel. The thing about those rides though is that they were fun before you could drive. When you could drive it was like, hey I’m driving but worse.

DS: That reminds me of the number one rule of doing go-carts. It’s don’t do it if there is someone over 40.

JH: Because they will take it way too seriously.

DS: They seriously will.

NB: I always end up with the slow car for some reason. They are not created equally.

MH: Joel and I actually worked at our local Worlds of Fun in Kansas City. We were both part of the railroad team crew, which was the only manually-operated vehicle or ride at all at this park. We were only there for five days before the other 65-year-old guys on the team didn’t really appreciate us as young whippersnappers.

JW: They also had wicked mustaches, and we were just punks.

JH: Not much has changed.

MH: They demoted me to the back of the train where I had to make up things and talk to people. I had to be like “On your left you will see where Steven Spielberg shot Jurassic Park.” And then people would be like “Huh, really? No way!”

DS: Apparently all of your clientele were from Canada.

NB: We are outside the Dobie Teather on the campus of The University of Texas, and the reason is that they are teamed up with Range Life. Hopefully we’ll get to talk to Todd later. What is it like doing a multimedia project like that with film and music?

MH: I think that it is something that has really great potential that we are just starting to experiment with right now. I think it’s a really great opportunity to go around and present different types of art and to ask people to give up their night and watch something that is a little out of the ordinary in an event in a city near them. I think the more that we figure out how to package that in the space that we’re given in each of these different cities the more potential you have. Maybe some people were into the movie. Or maybe the movie is something that you were taking a chance on, but the music is definitely something that captivated you and made you feel a part of this thing and inspires you to do your own thing.

NB: Do you guys feel like you are reaching more people through that?

MH: Certainly.

NB: Maybe people that have come for the movie and then checked out the band?
MH: Certainly that’s been the case.

JH: I think there have been several instances where people have decided to stay after one of the movies. We’ve only been able on this tour to meet up with Range Life only a few times. At each of these events there seems to be a couple of people who are willing to stick around and subsequently seem to enjoy it.

JW: I’d say Texas is the biggest turnout yet.

MH: A lot of people in this city, for sure, really appreciate all of the arts. Being a big festival town and all that—it’s awesome that people are willing to take a chance. I think it’s also cool to be in and around a University. That’s something that we haven’t exactly experienced yet this tour to connect with people who are in college and pretty much ready and willing to try out anything as long as the people who ask them to go to something have mustaches or look really creepy as they are spilling out of several vans.

NB: Speaking of vans…

JH: I thought you were going to say “Speaking of mustaches”

NB: I was actually going to go either way with that. Speaking of mustaches…

MH: 1…2…3…

Capybara: Mustache!

NB: Well, we’ve covered that then. So, if you could trade your van for a dinosaur what would it be?

DS: Deinonychus.

JH: He was thinking about that all day. I would trade it for one of those in Jurassic Park that shoots stuff out of its glands.

MH: Schnoz?

JH: That black tar-y stuff.

DS: Speaking of Jurassic Park, Velociraptors in real life were actually much smaller, so the Velociraptors in the movie were actually modeled after Deinonychus, but Velociraptor sounds cooler. “Velocity” and “raptor”—could you put together two cooler words into a dinosaur name?

MH: Do we want our main mode of transport to kill things? I would pick Brontosaurus because it would take very little gas. It would be very natural.

JH: And it would take like ten years to get somewhere.

DS: And it would take huge dumps.

JH: It wouldn’t take a lot of gas, but it would make a lot of gas.

NB: Carbon neutral. So you guys are doing some odd things for a touring band. You are teaming up with film tours, playing house shows, DIY places like Houston’s Happy Fun Land.

JH: Super Happy Fun Land.

NB: Oh man, I missed an adjective. So what advice would you guys have for a band just starting out?

MH: At the very beginning when we were booking all of the shows when we were trying to figure out where we were playing and who we were going to play for, it really is a risk you take to go out and be willing to do anything. Part of that that keeps you on your toes is not playing the same thing every night. You have to adjust the show itself and your performance based on the space you are in. But my advice is if you’re going to do it, don’t be too quick to criticize yourself. Find a way to enjoy yourself because it is something that is cool no matter what. It’s something that not a lot of people get to do, and it’s a privilege for sure. And that’s our serious answer. The funny answer is…

DS: Eat your beets.

JH: Bring something fun along like a game or a book. Not a book.

NB: Don’t read, kids!

JH: Joel just mumbled something.

DS: I think he said “ball of string,” which is what Joel spends most of his time playing with.

NB: What can we expect in the future from Capybara?

MH: That is something that we have also been thinking about lately. We are trying to build a machine that will also let us look into the future. Before we get to finishing that project—which will happen soon…

DS: You’ve just got to get off my back about it. I’ve been working on it okay? Day in, day out. I just need a couple more weeks.

MH: I briefly talked about how we recorded this album. We just kind of went and tried to figure it out as for the first time being a group. We just gave ourselves these three months to figure out whatever we could and to take that out on the road for the rest of the year.

DS: This album was very much a learning process for all of us—learning how to work together as a whole, learning how to record with the equipment we had, learning how to write as a team. We all write, and we all play a bunch of the instruments. I think the next piece of recording that we do…I don’t know what it will be, but I’m really excited to find out because we already have a lot of it figured out in terms of the process, but now we can really expand creatively.

The Awkward Off Vs. The Helio Sequence

Members of THE HELIO SEQUENCE chatted with me on the back porch of THE EARL in ATLANTA, GA before their show.

Even when my questions were about trading cars for dinosaurs, Benjamin and Brandon took me seriously. That’s no surprise, considering how carefully they consider their music–from songwriting to production. From their past jobs as instrument repo men to coming back from a lost voice, these guys have been nothing but sincere. Read on to learn about everything from their tips for success as an independent artist to their plans for making revenue from dinosaurs.

Thanks to the sweethearts at Sub Pop who were kind enough to blog about this interview.

Special thanks to Matt Crisler for taking photographs of the interview and for being my concert buddy.

Full Transcript: (Audio)

Nichole Bennett: Alright, I’m Nichole, and I am lucky enough to be here at the EARL in Atlanta with members of The Helio Sequence. Would you guys mind introducing yourselves?
Brandon Summers: I’m Brandon.
Benjamin Weikel: And I’m Benjamin.
NB: So, there’s a lot of information online about the story of you guys, and most people who are literate and have an internet connection can look that up. If they were to reenact your story, would they use marionette puppets or sock puppets?
BS: Finger puppets probably.
BW: I was thinking we might as well go all the way with marionettes. Or Jim Henson, you know?
NB: We’re going with muppets?
BW: Yeah, totally muppets, dark crystal, that would be cool.
BS: Lo-fi or big budget.
BW: I think we would get more realistic drumming action with like the Animal thing.
BS: Animal, yeah. Animal could play you.
NB: That’s a good one. So, we settled on muppets? And you guys used to work at a record store together?
BS: We did. It was actually a music store. It was more like a band instrument rental store with some guitars. So we were renting instruments to kids who were beginning band.
NB: Any stories from that? Any funny…or scary stories?
BS: Oh jeez, too many to remember. We used to practice there, which is sort of a story in and of itself.
BW: We actually recorded our first records there. I was a band instrument repo guy for a while.
NB: I didn’t know that existed!
BW: I became responsible for all of the accounts. And there had been people who basically had never paid for years, and I’d have to track them down.
BS: It got to be where you knew these people. It was like “Oh, that woman would come in and say she paid it off and would actually drop twenty five dollars on us.”
BW: Some people would be alright, but some people would be really weird. They’d bring their kid to the front door and be like “This is what happens!” Yelling at the kid because he can’t fifteen dollars a month for a clarinet.
NB: The drama of a music store!
BS: Like “He could have been the next Jon Bon Jovi, but you took that chance away from him”
BW: I have a pretty bitter taste from all that repo business. It’s not my kind of thing.
NB: Yeah, I played saxophone, so that was kind of expensive. But that’s another story.
BS: But you paid for it?
NB: Yeah…upfront. That was not very fun. So, again anybody who is literate and has an internet connection can learn about how you lost your voice and how you gained it back.
BS: Right.
NB: But I was curious about something most others had skimmed over and that is the Bob Dylan connection. You got to read a lot during that time, and his was the first book. And there are some of my favorite Bob Dylan covers on this album. And I read that you gained your voice back by playing a lot of Bob Dylan. Is that true, or am I just making this up?
BS: Yeah, in a way. That’s kind of a gloss over. You know how records come to you at a time when you really need them? I don’t know if that makes any sense. You just happen to hear a record at a certain point in your life, and it means a lot to you. For some reason when I lost my voice…it’s not like I didn’t know who Bob Dylan was before I lost my voice, but I happened to be at the record store, and I happened to come across a copy of The Times, They Are a Changin’ And I was like, I’ve never really listened to this record. I just bought it on a whim, and it really meant a lot to me, particularly the song “Boots of Spanish Leather.” That was the first song that I decided to learn. And then from there, I thought it was interesting to actually put the chords under my fingers and actually learn a song, so I should do more of that.
NB: I really like that. I think that one of the big things music does for people. It’s kind of a soundtrack, in a way. Yeah, I was actually going to ask you what your soundtrack album was from that time, and you just answered that for me.
BS: And other things come along. What else were we listening to during that time?
BW: I don’t know. That was such a long time ago.
BS: I remember listening to a lot of Dark Side of the Moon during that time. You can infer a lot from that, I’m sure.
NB: Oh yeah, I get that in the album.
BS: So we decided to put some extended guitar solos in, and then we cut them all out.
NB: Speaking of the latest record, there’s kind of an almost a paradox between a more polished sound, but you still have that “off the cuff” sound. I heard that “The Captive Mind,” you just recorded.
BS: Yeah, a lot of the vocal stuff was just first take. We would be working on something in the studio, and I would be able to take it home and work on the vocals.
BW: The demos.
BS: Yeah, the demo stuff, really rough. And bring it back and record the real version of it. And when I went to lay down the real track, something was missing from it. Something about the energy or the feeling of it or the meaning. And it was kind of “Well, what if we just redo some of the instruments around it. Lay down the drums again and the guitar and the bass, all kinds of stuff, and just use those vocal takes.” A lot of it ended up like that. A lot of it was first take stuff. It’s almost better that way.
NB: Yeah, you get a combination, almost a paradox between…it’s definitely very polished, like you tweaked it, but at the same time it’s very organic.
BS: That’s probably a lot of the mixing process. We spend a lot of time working it out. We record our own records and mix them.
NB: I think it’s neat when a band takes things from start to finish.
BS: I can’t imagine doing it any other way. It amazes me when a band is like, “Yeah, when we recorded the record we went in for about a week, and then we handed it off to a bunch of people and they finished it for us.” I don’t understand it.
NB: I imagine you would get handed back something totally different than you had actually put out. But you guys have control over that side of things.
BF: Maybe we’re just control freaks.
NB: This record is also more lyrically focused. And I say that, but at the same time, if you took the lyrics out, the songs would be able to stand by themselves. And it’s a little less cluttery. I hate the word cluttery because I do like the older stuff too because it is that way.
BW: Yeah, but when you compare them, that sums it up in a way. We approached the record thinking that way. Bob Dylan is a great example of somebody that makes songs that to us that are really really meaningful. And it’s not so much about the music as the lyrics or the story. And so we thought, we love music with orchestration and all of the crazy sounds, but let’s try to see if we can make more of a lyrical connection. So when we were doing all the orchestration, instead of just throwing it all together and being like “Here’s everything!”.
BS: And having to work the vocals in after that.
BW: It would be like “That’s kind of just getting in the way of it.” It’s really all about the vibe. It had a feeling from the beginning. Whenever we did something that felt like it was changing it too much or it was losing that feeling, we just cut it out. So then it ended up being…compared to the average band there are still more parts and more orchestrated, but for us, it was a little more sparse.
NB: Yeah, I think you can get that. I discovered you guys after you opened for Minus the Bear, and I immediately picked up Love and Distance there. And I never buy albums from opening bands.
Matt Crisler [taking photographs of interview]: Band snob!
NB: That is not what I meant at all. I meant I never buy an album from a band that I don’t even know, like right there, and I did. And I listened to it. And then the new one came out, and I was blown away by how different it was, but it was still you guys. But you guys put it much better than I could. Obviously, I’m very terrible with words.
BW: It’s a good thing you’re a writer.
NB: Yeah, it’s a good thing. I actually really wanted to ask you guys. You did something on this latest album that is sometimes scary for smaller bands, scary for indie bands. I think this was a lot more universal than most bands would go.
BW: Yeah, it’s totally out of fashion.
NB: It’s not very fashionable to appeal to a lot of people.
BW: I don’t know if it’s a question of appealing to a lot of people. I think it’s more a question of meaning.
BS: Well, I think it’s a question of just saying what you want to say. Like, when I’m writing lyrics, I’m thinking something to myself, and I’m just writing. I’m not thinking of something being universal or trying to get to a large amount of people. But I know what you’re saying, I think that a lot of lyrics, especially in the indie world come off as impressionistic. Like, a little image here, a little image here. Don’t do something that is too specific because then you’re going to have to take responsibility for having said that.
BW: Some people do it so well that they are creating a mood, and the only way to keep it that was is by not saying something, by having it be almost sort of more background. Almost commercial. And I don’t mean commercial in the sense of sellable, but commercial as literally in a sense of in the background. Like background when you’re driving, background when you’re hanging out in a bar. Nothing that is really going to get that close to you. Something that is going to be off. You can push it away, and it’s there and it sounds great, feels great, you know. But the moment somebody starts saying something that are personal, that means something, and I don’t think that’s the fad of music right now.
NB: It’s almost dangerous.
BS: Yeah I guess it could be. But more and more, the older I get, the music I am listening to, I’m actually listening to what people say. I’m listening to what is going on behind the sound of something or just “I like how that part sounds” or “That’s a catchy part.” That’s one level of music, and I don’t think you should discount that, especially if you’re making pop music, in essence. But if you’re able to make a song on that level, and then think to yourself “Well, what are they saying. What is that guy saying?” And it may be that I’m not getting anything from that. It doesn’t make any sense, or it’s all mixed up. That, to me, it actually brings the value of the song down.
BW: There are a lot of records, and I’m definitely not naming any names, but there are a lot of records on the surface that I’m really immediately excited about. But the more I listen to the music, I’m like “What is he saying?” It’s kind of killing it for me. The lyrics are either really horrible, or you can’t hear them. Everyone’s hiding behind the lo-fi.
BS: What you are saying is that if you’re saying something, you have to take responsibility for it. And you’re saying there’s something dangerous about it. And I’ve thought about it—that you somehow risk not being cool anymore by not agreeing with somebody. So it’s interesting that more and more, you get less of that .
NB: It’s very fashionable, I think, especially in a lot of hyped bands…We were just talking about the internet mentality earlier with Venice [is Sinking]. To not make sense, to be esoteric, and “Oh you guys, you just don’t get me.”
BW: It’s all very impressionistic.
NB: Impressionistic is a perfect way to put that. So if you were to describe your sound to a five-year-old, what would you say?
BS: I wouldn’t describe it, I would just put the CD on.
NB: I don’t talk to five-year-olds.
BS: No, I talk to five year olds very often. I have a nine month old. I’ll just put on music for her.
NB: So, no need for description…just put it on.
BW: I have a three year old nephew, and he came out to our show in Los Angeles, his first rock and roll show. The first time he’s seen me playing. My sister, his mom, she plays him the songs, and he knows that this is uncle Benjamin’s band. And we were playing the set. We stopped playing after the second song, and everything kind of died down for a second, and I just heard this “That’s Uncle Benjamin!”
BS: And mind you, this is in a three or four thousand person venue.
NB: Do you guys read press about yourselves?
BW: No.
BS: No, not anymore. I used to.
BW: It just bums me out.
NB: Yeah, it would be something that would just tear me apart.
BW: Yeah, it’s really depressing…
NB: I’m already self-critical enough. I don’t need any help.
BW: It would be dumb to say there is no point to music journalism, and I’m definitely not making a judgment of music writing. It’s more of just that I have an understanding that a journalist is a writer, and they have to do something interesting. If you write a bunch of reviews, that don’t say anything, then your job is boring. It’s a realization that somebody writing about music—you can’t take it personally because there’s always agendas just beyond the music. I don’t want to read it.
BS: And at the same time, you can’t truly get away from it. Someone’s actually going to come up to you and say “I read your review in Rolling Stone or blahblahblah.” And then you don’t have to read it.
NB: Since music journalism is so much more accessible with blogs and the internet, do you feel that it is affecting you guys in anyway, even though you aren’t reading it?
BS: I’m sure it helps just general awareness. And the way that people find out about music is all over the map these days. I’ve had people come up to me on this tour and tell me that they found out about us because we have one song on the Google phone. They came to us and asked us if they could include our song, for free, so it comes with the phone when people buy it. I’ve had people come up to me and say that they didn’t know who we were, and I heard you guys on my new phone. I love you guys. I went out and bought your records, and I’m a fan now. You can find music in so many ways. It’s just crazy.
NB: That’s another thing. When bands talk about commercials, they say that people heard their song on a commercial.
BS: I want to find someone who became a fan because of a ringtone.
BW: I think we did! There was a myspace comment once that they had downloaded “Don’t Look Away” ringtone.
BS: They probably meant to download The Chili Peppers.
BW: And then he went and looked at our myspace page.
NB: You guys have been around for quite a while. What advice would you give to a band that is just starting out.
BS: Keep going. I don’t know.
BW: Stop if you’re not good. We usually don’t take support bands on the road with us. So we get tons of local openers. Sometimes people are really excited, and they ask us “How do you hook up with Sub Pop” or “What do you do?” And I think some people want to try to skip steps. They just want to jump up ahead. And all that I can say is some people win the lottery, and some people don’t. Start thinking one step at a time. Book your small show, and get some friends there. Do one thing at a time. Don’t think about this big thing far off in the future. Enjoy making music
BS: And keep sight of that as you keep going because there are going to be people coming along saying “We want to sign you and throw all this money at you.” That kind of stuff happens. We had that happen to us especially early in our career.
BW: We said no.
BS: And we said no. For us, anyways, it was the right thing to do. Some bands can sign some gigantic contract and have a bunch of people throw money at them and get paid. But, I think you really run the risk of falling on your face.
NB: Definitely. Which fictional character is most like you guys?
BS: One character? Or is it a duo?
BW: The three muskateers.
NB: It can be one. You don’t have to pick a duo. You can pick separate ones.
BS: Probably Animal for Benjamin.
BW: Why? Why would that me be? I’m thinking the geeky guy in Real Genius.
BS: I’m trying to think of a fictional character.
NB: It can be cartoon.
BS: Yosemite Sam?
BW: What? How are you like Yosemite Sam?
BS: I don’t know. He’s fictional.
James Sewall [of Venice is Sinking]: Droopy’s good.
BS: I’m down with that.
NB: Okay, if you guys could break any world record, what would you break?
BW: Richest dude in the world.
NB: Richest dude in the world!
BS: Longest touring band in the world. We’ll be 90.
NB: Never stop touring. Do you guys prefer studio or stage?
BW: Both, in their own ways.
BS: Yeah, they are totally different worlds.
NB: As a duo, with a keyboardist/drummer, I’m sure it totally different both ways. And we talked earlier about how you go back in and tweak things.
BS: Yeah, it’s a totally different. A lot of bands come back from touring and record an album, but for us, I feel like the studio process is a lot slower, much more methodic kind of a process.
NB: And at the same time, your live sound is very similar to your studio so. So, whatever magic you guys are working…
BS: That’s what it is.
NB: And if you could turn in your tour van for a dinosaur, which one would you choose?
BS: What’s the fastest dinosaur?
NB: I’ve never seen a dinosaur race.
BS: Because that’s all you need out of a tour van—get to that next city.
BW: You’re thinking you want the dinosaur to be a vehicle?
BS: Well, if we didn’t have a tour van, we’d need something to get from show to show.
BW: I mean, I don’t think a dinosaur is going to work.
BS: We have to trade it in for a dinosaur, though.
BW: If we had a dinosaur, we could open a zoo…
BS: And then from the revenue of that, okay.
BW: We could totally buy a new van. I’m thinking we should go for a big one, like T. Rex.
BS: Okay.
BW: Well, maybe a brontosaurus, though. It doesn’t eat meat. It would be more indie. It would be more cool. A vegan dinosaur. And less likely to eat anyone.
NB: We would like to request a vegan dinosaur, please.
BS: Okay, I’m down with that.
BW: We would have to buy some land.
BS: We could get a loan from the bank.
NB: With the brontosaurus as collateral.
BW: But where would we put the dinosaur while we are waiting for the loan?
BS: This is really tricky.
NB: This question is a lot more complicated that I had originally thought it would be.
BW: Or transportation too. We’d probably have to hire a construction company for it.
Matt Crisler: You could walk it.
NB: Dinosaur rollerskates.
BW: I wonder if you could lease a brontosaurus. Like if we had a huge, a really heavy truck, that we could chain it to.
BS: Or a van…oh damn, we gave it up for the dinosaur.
NB: On that note, we’ll end on if you were any animal, what would you be?
BS: A panda.
BW: I don’t know. A brontosaurus.
NB: Thank you very much for being with me.